Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3


Also, I've been thinking about the applicability of LotRO content here for a while now. By definition, of course, any location/character/significant object from the game can belong here as an article. But as you can see here: [1], there are over 86,000 content articles at the Lotro Wiki, and there's no reason for us to have near-duplicate articles for each item, nor would it be feasible. Do you think there's some kind of parameters we could set for LotRO content here for the sake of organization? Obviously depictions of canon material belongs, but perhaps also major locations and characters that directly tie in to the main quests? Just some thoughts.

Have a good evening, --Bitterhand (talk) 03:07, March 26, 2019 (UTC)

Congrats Edit

Hey, Congrats on joining Council! :) Patrik 16:26, March 26, 2019 (UTC)


Oh ok sorry by the way......Darksoldier1187 (talk) 09:33, March 30, 2019 (UTC)

why you removed the siblings part of berelach?

for gods sake the realm is GONDOR isn't it?

oh ok but i thought it was important to fill the entries that we surely know (they are actually unknown but ok)

Wiki Manager Edit

Hi! My name is Playsonic2, and I’m the Fandom Wiki Manager for The Lord of the Rings Wiki. I am here to help the community and be a liaison to full-time Fandom staff. If you ever have a question or issue relating to the wiki, editing, etc., please contact me on my talk page. See you! ~Playsonic2 14:33, May 20, 2019 (UTC)

Community Manager Edit

Hi HiddenVale, how are you?

Well, as you may have noticed with the new change of our Community Org, our team will be highly focused on building a closer relationships with our communities, admins and users than before. As one of the Community Managers, I will be together with our Wiki Manager Playsonic2 to fully support this wiki, help you and other admins solve any issues/concerns on this wiki, partnership with you guys for any exciting relevant projects, and make this wiki more attractive and successful.

I have seen his introduction here so I wanted to do it too adding more information for you :D

Long in short - we are here to fully support any needs you may have to make this community keep growing successfully. If you and other admins need any help, feel free to directly contact Playsonic2 or me any time. We will be always in touch!

And now? I would like to know more about the community, if you have any important request for us, any concern or what are your expectations for the new TV series.

Let's keep in touch!--Antonio R. Castro (leave me a message) @fandom 11:41, June 5, 2019 (UTC)

Re: CategoriesEdit

Of course! I'll continue to work on overall cohesiveness as I'm able. I'll likely scale back my edit volume for the next couple of weeks while I finish a class, but it shouldn't be anything drastic.

You may want to delete this: ([2]) category that I made before realizing you had already made one titled simply "Images of Wights". Also, though it's obviously low on the proverbial priorities list, I've marked quite a few superfluous and duplicate images for deletion ([3]), which might help to clear up some disorganization.

Additionally, what do you think about deleting the articles here and possibly making a page listing the titles instead: ([4])? Personally I don't see much point in having a separate article for each scene, and we'd eventually have to add scenes for the previous two films to be consistent.

Thanks, --Bitterhand (talk) 17:48, June 5, 2019 (UTC)

why was Golasgil's info and picture changed??? Darksoldier1187 (talk) 12:36, June 6, 2019 (UTC)

yeah but the pictures from the movie were removed as well as the portrayal adaptation

Gillim category Edit

Is there any mention in the Book of Lost Tales of Gilim having any allegiance to Morgoth? I don't have that book but I have the re-edited version of Beren and Luthien and Gilim is briefly mentioned there, but there is nothing to indicate that he is in league with Morgoth Bauglir.This is where I found him mentioned: "nor did she forget the chain Angainu that Aulë and Tulkas made or the neck of Gilim the giant". Giants were indead dangerous creatures, but there is no recorded version of them being allied with either one of the Dark Powers, as far as I know. I read the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales but I found no mention of Giants serving evil overlords. Sure, they are used by the Goblin faction in BFME2 and the Angmar faction in the expansion pack ROTWK, but that's non-canon. So is Gilim ever counted by J.R.R. Tolkien himself or by his son Christopher among the servants/allies of Morgoth?Alex of Star Wars (talk) 12:15, June 9, 2019 (UTC)

Discussion board Edit

Hello Hiddenvale,

I was just wondering if you could enable discussion on the LOTR wiki? I will be really grateful and believe me we would really have a good number of users using the Dboard. So pls let me know if that's possible.

Newt Strike (talk) 11:08, June 22, 2019 (UTC)

Hey HiddenVale, I saw your question on Slack and that you had requested Discussions be enabled. To speed things up a bit I went ahead and enabled it. You can find it now on - Brandon Rhea@fandom(talk) 00:48, June 23, 2019 (UTC)
Oh. Splendid, thank you! HiddenVale - HV logo TalkPage 00:51, June 23, 2019 (UTC)
No problem! - Brandon Rhea@fandom(talk) 00:52, June 23, 2019 (UTC)

Hey Hiddenvale,

I would also like to propose myself for moderatorship on the Dboard. I have experience with discussion rules n guidelines and I'm already moderating like three wikis. So it will be good if you grant my request. And thanks for enabling the discussion. Any idea why it has not popped in the fandom app yet?

Newt Strike (talk) 06:29, June 23, 2019 (UTC)

Ah it's okay. I understand I'm new here but not new to moderatorship. But anyways, hope you will grant my request in the upcoming days. I will be contributing to discussion and try to attract users there. And I guess, the staffs can enable the discussion on apps too, right? May be you could ask them for it. Thanks

Newt Strike (talk)`

NVM, discussion has been enabled on app as well.

Newt Strike (talk) 08:35, June 24, 2019 (UTC)

RE: UpdateEdit

Great! I think that has a lot of potential to be a positive component of the wiki, and I'll certainly be active there. If you feel the need for one, I'll be happy to be a discussion moderator to help enforce the rules.

It might be prudent to add some additional rules depending on how it goes, but we'll have to play it by ear, obviously.

Thanks, and have a great evening!

--Bitterhand (talk) 01:51, June 23, 2019 (UTC)

Just wanted to get your opinion on some potential discussion rules (this came around faster than I anticipated). Could/should we ban quasi-irrelevant posts (currently those asking for favorite characters)? They're harmless, I suppose, but in one sense lower the general quality of material here. At the same time, I don't want to be legalistic with other users, but my impression is that it detracts from our purpose of being a serious Tolkien-centered encyclopedia and pulls more towards a fan-fic realm. (I've watched the Wookiepedia discussions go from a rather impressive center of news and analysis to a steady stream of memes, "who's the most powerful" polls and silly questions, and would prefer we avoid the same if possible.)

Or perhaps I'm overreacting; maybe that's just what the discussions are intended to be. But in any case just wanted to get your take before I added anything to the guidelines.

Thanks, and have a good evening.

--Bitterhand (talk) 01:24, June 26, 2019 (UTC)

I went ahead and updated the guidelines over on Discussions per what we talked about; obviously, feel free to amend what I added if needed. I'll be on the lookout for other types of posts that deserve to be listed, but I think that should do for now.

--Bitterhand (talk) 03:11, June 26, 2019 (UTC)

RE: CommunicationEdit

Sounds good; I’m about to turn in for the night, so I’ll email you as soon as I get a chance tomorrow. Thanks!

--Bitterhand (talk) 03:00, June 28, 2019 (UTC)

Updated Guidelines Edit

Hey Hiddenvale, I'm here just to let you guys know that the discussion has been enabled just right now. We don't even have enough contributors there so don't you guys think it's too early to set up strict guidelines right now? It's just the beginning of the Dboard and I can see more deleted posts than any discussion post. I'm not saying you guys are wrong but there are different types of users, some like to post memes, some have poll interests while some like to have in-depth discussion so I guess as the discussion has just began right now we should allow all types of contributions. Also, wookepedia got a revival cuz there were more number of deleted posts than the discussion posts and that's why the staffs took that measure. It's just a thought, let me know what you think of it.

Newt Strike (talk) 07:18, June 28, 2019 (UTC)Yes

Hello I'm Ran Fa Li 132 I'm in LOTR wikia... I'd like to apply for mod.. Consider this when there is a need for mods.. As bitter hand is the only mod there

Ran Fa Li 132 (talk) 14:29, June 29, 2019 (UTC)

And u asked how i came across this That's very simple I have been following this LOTR wikia for ages.. And I'm new to editing Started in HPW some time ago.. Newt strike the new GDM told me that the Dboard for LOTR is available now.. Thx for him..

Ran Fa Li 132 (talk) 14:31, June 29, 2019 (UTC)


It just occurred to me that the line between "who is better" posts (not allowed) and "who's your favorite" (currently allowed) posts in Discussions can actually be quite fine, as seen in the poll titled "Saruman or Sauron". What do you think the best solution might be? Personally, if I were the dictator of my own message board, I'd probably ban both, but I don't believe that's likely to be best here.

--Bitterhand (talk) 02:25, July 2, 2019 (UTC)


What do you think about deleting Legolas' Mirkwood bow, Gimli's battle axe, and Sam's Barrow-blade, for the same reason we don't have articles for "Faramir's sword"? Each are only mentioned a couple of times in The Fellowship of the Ring, and are not capitalized. I'm not sure if Gimli's Walking Axe should stay or not based on it being nominally unique to the films.

Also, do you have any objections if I start merging the articles here, or would some of these need more deliberation? It only occurred to me recently that non-admins can merge articles by redirecting/moving text if needed.


--Bitterhand (talk) 17:14, July 8, 2019 (UTC)


Just wanted to mention a couple of things that may not be high on the priorities list, but might merit a look.

Firstly, the "Forum" link on the dropdown from "Other" now directs to the new Discussion board, instead of the older Forum:Index. If there's anywhere that links to the old forum, I'm not aware of it. I wonder if there is any need now for the "Fellowship" forum, as it appears to serve the same purpose as the new Discussions, and it seems unlikely anyone will find/use it at this point. Depending on how we want to use the Discussions, I think we could potentially direct users to the Council for troubleshooting/wiki-based issues from the actual Discussions or clarify that Discussions is available for all questions.

Also, I believe we briefly discussed this a while back, but what do you think the process might should be for selecting new featured articles/pictures? I think it'd be beneficial to update our current selection sometime in the near future and establish a methodology for periodically updating as needed after that, and I'll be happy to help with it however the best way ends up being.


--Bitterhand (talk) 16:11, July 12, 2019 (UTC)

In most of the other wikis I've looked at, there appears to be a simple nomination/vote system, and the admin will then implement the winners. Wookiepedia, I'm sure due to its massive size and traffic, has a separate group of admin just to maintain the featured article system, and meets monthly to update it. Obviously there's no need for us to change the articles that frequently, and considering the number of nominations to the featured picture article, I'd propose something along the lines of this:

Leave a place open (or start a Discussion thread) for users to nominate articles if they wish, but primarily work off of joint admin analysis, with a tentative plan to review the current articles every six months or so. If it's you and I and/or the other admin, I imagine we could make do with simple agreement/discussion in lieu of straight-up voting. And if any major developments come out (Amazon series content, for instance) between periods, I'd assume that would be a valid impetus to add/subtract a few current articles as needed.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts; feel free to let me know if I can help with anything.

--Bitterhand (talk) 02:02, July 13, 2019 (UTC)


I went ahead and created new portals for the scenes from the Lord of the Rings film trilogy, so if all is done correctly I suppose we can delete the separate scene articles we discussed previously. And by the way, shouldn't the above link be titled "The Lord of the Rings film trilogy"? It appears that the current page was created by Mayooresan; a mistake seems likely given the grammar at their page. If so, I can move the info back to the original title, which is now a redirect.

Also, I just noticed that the "Forum" link to the right side of Recent Activity, in the "Community Messages" box, still directs to the deleted Forum:Index.

Have a good afternoon,

--Bitterhand (talk) 17:51, July 29, 2019 (UTC)


Hi HiddenVale, Thank you for the welcome note you gave me! I had a question. Is there any way to save a page that you are creating without publishing it so you can come back to work on it later? Hannon allen and God bless! -ArwenUdomiel (talk) 19:31, August 1, 2019 (UTC)

OK! Thank you! I will do that!ArwenUdomiel (talk) 23:23, August 1, 2019 (UTC)

RE: New template and LOTR categoriesEdit

I actually had in mind just what you mentioned with regard to clarification, specifically site visitors less familiar with Middle-earth; I guess I was more in the mindset of being organizationally accurate than of common sense. I certainly don't have a problem with leaving the template off those articles, so of course feel free to delete it.

Also, I meant to mention earlier that I don't see much point in having both of these categories: [5] and [6], since the latter will by definition include all the articles in the former. I think the major/minor character distinction is good, but having two categories that largely overlap doesn't seem to be of much help. Would one of those be a legitimate candidate for deletion?

Have a good evening, and sorry about any trouble.

--Bitterhand (talk) 01:33, August 4, 2019 (UTC)

As an appendix to the above question, what would you say constitutes a character being in that category; would a single mention or appearance sort that character into "Minor", and longer appearances into "Major"?

Also, as a brief note, do you think we can/should disallow "Who's your favorite" polls at this point in regard to the Discussions, or hold off for now? They really don't foster any discussion, and I think technically the Guidelines would be more consistent to exclude them, although they have made up the majority of the posts there so far.

Have a good evening,

--Bitterhand (talk) 00:35, August 7, 2019 (UTC)

Hey HiddenVale

LonelyHorse9 (talk) 02:36, August 29, 2019 (UTC)

why you be mean to me?

you insulted my creation

LonelyHorse9 (talk) 02:45, August 29, 2019 (UTC)

Twitter page Edit

Hi, HiddenVale. I recently realized that I haven't taken care of the LotR wiki's Twitter page in a while. I'm sorry about that. I really should have kept it up, especially since I said I would. I've been occupied with a lot of stuff in the real world among other things. If you'd like, though, I can pick it up again, and make a post every week. 18:00, August 30, 2019 (UTC)

Infobox and discussionsEdit

I noticed when updating the articles for the three books of the trilogy that Infobox Book wasn't behaving properly when leaving fields blank; I took a look at it and was able to fix it, as well as update it to the new markup formatting (Draft). Just wanted to run it by you before I approved it to replace the old template as I'm not sure how difficult it is to revert.

Also, hopefully it won't be an issue, but the user you blocked earlier today left some spam in the discussions early this morning; I deleted the offending posts, but I'm not sure if blocking users from the wiki also blocks them from commenting there. I evidently don't have the option to ban people simply as a moderator, or I would have done it myself.

Have a good afternoon,

--Bitterhand (talk) 19:59, September 17, 2019 (UTC)


I am going to start writing a summary of the letters in my own words. Not copied from any website and not a full version of the letter. I will probably start this tommorow.

Directional articlesEdit

Do you think that the "directional" articles (i.e. North, Northeast, Southeast, etc.) would be candidates for deletion? Seems pretty self-explanatory to me. Also, just a reference to the above message about the book infobox in case you missed it.

Have a great day,

--Bitterhand (talk) 17:45, October 1, 2019 (UTC)

Deleting a page?Edit

Hello HiddenVale, I think that someone just wrote a page called Why Samwise Gamgee is the Real Hero of Middle-Earth. I'm not sure if that is a proper subject for a page. Would it be a candidate for deletion? Na lû e-govaded 'wîn, ArwenUdomiel (talk) 21:43, October 7, 2019 (UTC)

added message Edit

On Deleted articleEdit

Remember Glaurung's attack on Beleriand or Glaurung's attack on the Beleriand. I've agreed with most of your deletions so far but I believe you should have at least consulted me on this one article. It is not just because I wrote it and want it to be preserved just for that reason alone, it is because I believe it to be a legitimate in-universe historical battle or event. I may not be mentioned by name but it is fully described in the Quenta Silmarillion as a part of the Noldor's war with Melkor, the life and history of the villain Glaurung, the Siege of Angband, and the long peace before the Dagor Bragollach. If not by named article, then much of the text alone is valid and worthy to be added to the Glaurung article. It is for this reason that I may revive it. I'd like for us to work something out on this as two admins who can both delete or un-delete things here.--DarkLantern (talk) 06:10, October 11, 2019 (UTC)

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