Sauron's son?[]
Is it possible that Mouth of Sauron was Sauron's son? Methyl Orange (contact me) 10:07, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
No, he isn't Sauron's son. The Mouth of Sauron was a Black Númenorian in Sauron's service. He became the Lieutanant of Barad-Dur because Sauron used him to communicate messages to enemies. Plus, early in his writings Tolkien dismissed the idea of Ainur having children. TheGreyPilgrim|Talk|Contribs|Edits 14:53, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
'Plus, early in his writings Tolkien dismissed the idea of Ainur having children.' Then how could Melian have daughter Luthien? Elseway I know that this is very improbable. Methyl Orange (contact me) 16:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I should have taken Melian into account. I do know that he completely dismissed the Valar having children, but I guess that didn't apply to Maiar. I stand corrected. TheGreyPilgrim|Talk|Contribs|Edits 18:25, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
HE ISN'T SAURON'S SON!!!!!! J.R.R. Tolkien says himself in "The Return of the King" that "But it is told that he was a renegade, who came of the race of those that are named the Black Numenoreans." This is indisputibale. Anyway, Sauron would not want to have a son, as he would be afraid that his own son may overthrow him.--Ecthelion III 03:27, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
- No, he wasn't Sauron's son. Tolkien says he was "a living man." - Gradivus, 19:45, January 21, 2013 (UTC)
In any case, that guy is the most hideous thing I have ever seen!!!!! The first time I saw him he scared me more than the Witch-King!!!--Ecthelion III 02:15, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
i wish in the movie they showed him fight for atleast a few seconds he should have fought Aragorn it sucks he gets so little screen time.
Age of the mouth of Sauron[]
The Mouth of Sauron can't be 3200 years old: in LotR it's said of him "this was no Ringwraith but a living man" and in Unfinished Tales, in the introduction to "The Line of Elros: Kings of Numenor" it says "to Earendil's son the longest life of any Man was given", which is specified in the same place to be 500 years.
And as for the MoS having "forgotten" his own name, Tolkien could have been using forgotten in the sense of "neglected, dismissed from the mind", as in when people say "forget it" meaning "there is no need to say or do anything further" (definitions from Chambers Dictionary 9th Ed.). Biggus23x 23:57, February 26, 2012 (UTC)
- I must say that's a very nice remark. What you say about the age of the Numenoreans is definitely true. Perhaps his lifespan was prolonged by Sauron? Who knows? Tolkien never specifically wrote what the full extent of Sauron's power was. Although the quote by Tolkien from the Return of The King states that the Mouth of Sauron was no wraith but a living man, Tolkien did write his trilogy in a timespan of over 10 years and was constantly rewriting things. It is possible that two versions of his story contradict eachother. Perhaps there is an actual valid explanation, I don't know. This is a not too satisfying but, in my opinion, possible explanation.--Nognix 01:45, February 27, 2012 (UTC)
- Agreed, the only explanation I could come up with which could possibly save the "3200 years old" interpretation was the old "maybe Tolkien had changed his conception of how the world worked inbetween writings". Biggus23x 11:17, February 27, 2012 (UTC)
- No, he could easily be 3200 years old, as it says in the Lord of the Rings that he used Sauron's sorcery to greatly prolong his life. — NTPYTO (talk) 16:44, January 21, 2013 (UTC)
- The Lord of the Rings doesn't say any such thing; it says only that "he learned great sorcery," not that his lifespan was increased in any way. As a Black Numenorean he would have a longer lifespan than usual anyway. It's most likely that when Tolkien said he entered the service of the Dark Tower "when it first rose again," he meant in TA 2951, which is when Sauron "begins the rebuilding of Barad-Dûr" (Appendix B), which was sixty-seven years before the War of the Ring. - Gradivus, 19:45, January 21, 2013 (UTC)
- No, he could easily be 3200 years old, as it says in the Lord of the Rings that he used Sauron's sorcery to greatly prolong his life. — NTPYTO (talk) 16:44, January 21, 2013 (UTC)
- NTPYTO: if it says that, could you give me the exact quote and page number? I can't find it anywhere. Biggus23x (talk) 10:37, January 22, 2013 (UTC)
- Page numbers depend on the edition. In my (50'th Anniversary) edition "he learned great sorcery" is about six pages into the chapter "The Black Gate Opens," near the end of the paragraph that starts, "At its head there rode a tall and evil shape, ...." The date entry for that year is in Appendix B. - Gradivus, 15:29, January 22, 2013 (UTC)
- Gradivus: Thank you, but I wasn't asking you, I was asking NTPYTO Biggus23x (talk) 19:37, January 22, 2013 (UTC)
- NTPYTO: if it says that, could you give me the exact quote and page number? I can't find it anywhere. Biggus23x (talk) 10:37, January 22, 2013 (UTC)
Don Messick or John Stephenson?[]
You and quite a few other sites have Don Messick listed as the Mouth's voice for the Rankin/Bass 1980 animated version - where I think they called him the Voice Of Sauron, rather than his Mouth. But when I asked the site-runner for the Rankin/Bass memorial site, they said it was John "Mister Slate" Stephenson who voiced him. I see he's listed for at least a few roles in ROTK-R/B, notably as the Witch-King. I don't know who's right, but I thought you should be aware, since the site-runner was a former R/B employee of some vintage.Gojirob (talk) 05:57, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
?![]
How it's possible that in the last pic there is an icon of Palpatine (as Dark Sidious)?! What the heck? He's a mouth of Sauron too lol?
hello lord of the rings is by far my favorite movie!!!
The Mouth of Sauron's age[]
I would like to Profoundly discuss The mouths age i am in opinion that he is 3200 years old given that it took Gollum(Sméagol) Near 500 years to forget his name and assuming he Joined Sauron when The "dark Tower" Rose again" Both where Rebuilt in TA 2951 And in SA 3320 the latter making him sixty to eighty If that where the case then he would not have forgotten his name Nor Speak in such a way though he was mortal I am not saying he is Immortal but with sorcery he may have indeed prolonged his Life
Please add your input and comments
DEATH1111 (talk) 10:41, May 8, 2020 (UTC)
- No one is suggesting you have faulty reasoning, but there are good reasons not to take this view. "Forgotten" could just as easily mean the MoS was too young when he entered Sauron's service to remember his real name. Also, in RotK it is said he was no wraith but a living man, and elsewhere that Elros, who lived to be about 500, had the longest lifespan of any Man.
- The basic problem is, unless we know something to be 100% true (i.e. something Tolkien explicitly said) we can't put it down as a fact. It could be that the Mouth of Sauron was born in the Second Age, but he was more likely born in the late Third Age, as some respected Tolkien scholars, such as Michael Martinez, believe. Thus, we leave that part of the infobox blank since we can't definitively say for sure.
- Additionally, this has already been discussed above, if you'd like to read.
--Bitterhand (talk) 13:18, May 8, 2020 (UTC)
I think that all of this is getting away from the point. Tolkien tells us two things: that 'yet this was no Ringwraith but a living man' and 'he entered the service of the Dark Tower when it first rose again'. Those are both pretty clear statements, the only qualifier is 'his name is remembered in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it'. This is pretty flimsy evidence for calling into doubt the other two clear cut statements. Given the absolute evil he was immersed in it's hardly surprising that his memory of any earlier life slipped away quickly.
Ultimately we know he entered the service of the Dark Tower when it rose again and was a living man. The article says that, anything else is irrelevant speculation and belongs on the talk page, not in the article. Gondorian2012 (talk) 21:30, 18 August 2022 (UTC)