Talk: Balrogs

Truth be told, the Balrog looked good with wings. Whether or not they could fly is not of my deciding. —The preceding unsigned comment was summoned by 216.224.121.143 (talk • contribs).

if they could fly then why did the balrog fall down with Gandalf into Moria? He could have flown out of there Gimli 12:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it was flightless, like a penguin or an ostrich? --Sam Kay 17:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

The book does exactly say that it has wings, it says that "...the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings." So maybe it doesn't have wings and this is just a great description of the shadow or maybe it does have wings - it depends on how you interpret it.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  21:51, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I say it is up to the reader. I imagine them to have wings, but it does not really matter what other people think to me. --Sam Kay 13:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I think I recall something in the Silmarillion about Ancalagon the black flying in with Balrogs following him. As for why he couldn't fly when Gandalf knocked him down, #1, it takes some room to fly, and when you have big wings in a cave, you don't have that room. The physics of it change from creature to creature. For instance, a goose needs a good running start. Bats have no trouble. I'd say he just didn't have the wing room or the ability to pull up. The wings sounded like they were to big. Elrond Elensaron

Lack of room wouldn't have stopped him from flying away from Gandalf when they got to the top of the mountain — if he could. Obviously, he couldn't. - Gradivus, 22:58, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

I suppose, the wings aren't physical but rather ethereal, being related to smoke from flames and shadows. Balrogs are able to morph their wings according to their needs, e.g. striking fear into their foes, yet they can't use their wings to fly or anything, due their immateriality. Masterius 14:52, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Of course, it is possible that they could have been able to use their wings early on, so "Swiftly they arose, and they passed with winged speed over Hithlum, and they came to Lammoth as a tempest of fire." could mean they flew, but as time wore on, they eventually lost the use of their wings. If you're responding to the recently placed template there, what I meant was that it seemed like the person (or group of people) writing it were in favor of Balrogs not having wings. Gamma Metroid | talk | contribs | edits 20:44, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

It is OVER:

One simple ending to the whole "does a Balrog have wings" debate is easy, in practicly EVERY game dipicting a Balrog they have wings, case in point, LOTR: Conquest in the game they let you PLAY as a Balrog, hell they even ATTACK with their wings, if thats not un-arguable evidence, I don't know what is. SSD-Revan 01:47, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

• The game isn't canon. I just argued. ●

Balrogs with Wings

I thinks that Balrogs indeed have wings but maybe the one of Moria because of the fact that was under-earth lost the ability to flight... That's my theory...

Ok, ok to sum up everything is this: the Balrog's may or may not have wings (no one wins until Tolkien says which) I will attempt to make a very poorly educated guess at the matter...

The Balrog at Moria supposedly had either wings or an aura of darkness that was of wing shape which is the question The argument that it could've saved itself when Gandalf took out the bridge is rather a shaky one at that, if say I suddenly yanked out the perch from under a bird of sorts completely by surprise, it is unlikely that the bird would be able to save itself from hitting the ground because I took it by surprise and has no advantage of takeoff in midair plus momentum already downwards I don't think the Balrog's wings would be strong enough to pull out of that because it probably hasn't used them in a while (or it may be flightless like a dodo or kiwi) and the cavern is also very closed in to the Balrog (since its wings were so large apparently).Also it was stated somewhere that maia (think thats what Gandalf and the Balrog's are) cannot fly when in material form (the wings might've been for show to make them fiercer)

But there might not be any wings at all due to the statement above and the wings described by the author were actually just and aura and there were no wings whatsoever while the movie makers interpret it as wings. that is all i have to say on the matter at the moment i will come up with more later as i am too lazy to do much more.

Balrogs

Balrogs are Maia, and thus they can take any form they want. The form they chose is the one that we all no and love. They most likely did have "wings", either of just smoke or something, to look more intimidating. They could have used them to fly, though I somewhat doubt it, maybe they could use them to jump really far, who knows. As for the Balrog falling, it would have taken room to fly, as was stated, and he was also being battered by the walls and by Gandalf. It is also possible that Gandalf put a spell on him that would make it more difficult to fly, who knows. As for him falling to his ruin, Anglacon, the first flying dragon, fell to his death after Earendil cast him out of the sky. I think that they had wings, when they wanted them, and that they could use them to glide or to jump, though not necessarily fly. Ike 01:14, March 27, 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the Balrog was closer to 20 - 25 feet tall than 18 feet.

I think that the Balrog has wings, but that they don't function. Kind of like how some birds cannot fly. Plus, the wings do make the Balrog look pretty darn cool.

Not bat-like or bird-like wings, but the figurative type

There is no indication that Tolkien considered the Balrog to have actual wings as a flying creature would have. In The Lord of the Rings the Balrog is described as appearing as a great shadow with a dark form within it, and when it reached the bridge "the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings" [emphasis added]. When the fire within it dimmed the darkness grew, so that when it stepped onto the bridge "its wings were spread from wall to wall." So they were not physical wings equipped for or meant for flight; they were appendages of darkness, figurative wings as in the phrase "the wings of the building," i.e., portions that spread out to either side.  - Gradivus, 00:47, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

I agree I believe they are a sort of ethereal shadow which the balrog controls -TheDragonLord (talk) 22:43, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

P.S. How do you type in Tolkien letters?

Answer: Use a Tolkien typewriter.

Balrog Magic

In the Fellowship of the ring when the orcs were in the room and Gandalf Said"It Perceived me and my spell" a little later he said something along the lines of, " I have never felt such a counter-spell before," which would mean Balrogs can use magic, like the Istari. Can we add this to the article. I will try to find the exact quote -TheDragonLord (talk) 22:40, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

"Then Something Came into the chamber -- I felt it through the door, and the orcs themselves were afraid and silent. It laid hold of the iron ring, and then it percieved me and my spell.                                                                         

What it was I cannot guess, but i have never felt sucha challenge. The counter-spell was terrible. It Nearly Broke me. For an istant the door left my control and began to open! I had to speak a word of Command. That proved to great a  strain. The door burst into pieces" Gandalf explaining his Balrog encounter TheDragonLord (talk) 13:02, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

wing debate pointless

forgive my arrogance jumping into the oldest internet debate ever but after FINALLY reading all of tolkiens work i have come to a conclusion on this debate. the debate is pointless. the Balrogs are quoted as being Maiar who have fallen (or in simpler terms fallen angels). since Gandalf and the rest of the maiar/"wizards" are also stated to take on forms that suit them but be more or less ethereal in true look and style (the old man guise was so they appeared more humble) this means that a balrog would take on a form that suits its needs and not always have a generic look.

by this reasoning the diffrence of a man form vs a bull demon and the wings vs no wings is purely based on the needs of the balrog at the time.

203.219.85.18 11:20, September 7, 2015 (UTC)

Page needs cleaning

I think this page could use a serious one-over by mods.

The trivia contains things in no way relevant to LOTR, prime example:

"A demonic monster in the popular 2D side-scrolling game Maplestory, bears many similar qualities and characteristics, and thus many believe the monster was represented on behalf of the fictitious one depicted in the Tolkien series."

This belongs on a wiki for Maplestory - and since it's completely based in fan theory, it should also be discarded as incorrect - unless the devs of Maplestory say otherwise.  A fan theory isn't trivia about something, why dilute the actual information on the page with junk like that.  100% outside of somebody noting similarities, it has NOTHING to do with the series.  Demons have traditionally been depicted this way throughout any fantasy media - just because something is big, has wings, horns and fire - doesn't make it a Balrog ripoff.  The trivia sections making claims like how the one game's summon "clearly" copied it - and how Darksiders resembled it is also pure junk and has no place on a serious wiki.  I came here for actual information on the Balrog, not to be bombarded with fan theories and ridiculous + baseless assertions.

Here's anothe gem from the list:

"The boss Fyrus from Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, bears a slight resemblance to Balrog, in it's height and black fiery form."

If a "slight resemblance" is all it takes to end up as trivia on a wiki, then I can help dilute this page far more - I have tonnes of useless junk I could attribute to being trivia.  

In vain of the others, here's my dumb and poorly thought out contribution "The Bombs in Final Fantasy are made of fire, the Balrog is made of fire, something, something resemblane."

Revival-ProjectSeriesDev (talk) 10:18, June 3, 2017 (UTC)

Not Wings, Wing-like Shadow

It's understandable that many readers get the impression that the balrog in Moria has wings, because Tolkien talks about his wings; and wings (especially batlike wings) look awfully cool and demonic, so it's natural for artists to incline that way in depicting balrogs.  But Tolkien's first mention of the balrog's "wings" tells us that its shadow (in the firelight from the chasm below) stretched to either side like wings.  All further references to "wings" are to that shadow, not to physical wings.  I don't have my copy of the book with me, or I'd quote the passage.  The description in the article is wrong and should be replaced. 

Also, when the balrog's fire was doused in the frigid waters under Khazad Dûm, and "it turned into a thing of slime", there is no basis for supposing, as the article does, that the balrog engaged in any sort of shape-shifting.  As the article suggests (but only as an alternative possibility), the only indication in the text is that a balrog whose fire goes out in the water becomes "a thing of slime".  Unless some other work of Tolkien's says otherwise (which I'm not aware of), it's pure speculation to suggest that the balrog, being a maia, has supernaturally transformed its bodily form.  I'm not a member here, so I'm not editing the Wiki, but members should review the text and conform the article to it.

Jim Crutchfield, Long Island City, NY, USA  208.226.153.28 19:35, October 23, 2017 (UTC)

I think there is more about them and their origins in the Silmarillion and other First Age books. I have not read them in a while so someone else could check?—|| Grudgeholderr ||— 02:06, October 24, 2017 (UTC)