LOTR:Articles to be renamed

This page is for proposing and discussing articles believed to be in need of renaming.

Also see LOTR:Articles to be merged which may contain articles that should just be renamed and may not need to be merged.

Renames in question

Bow (weapon) to Bow

"Bow" is currently a redirect to "Bow (weapon)". People are more likely to search "Bow" than "Bow (weapon)". Therefore, I believe it would be better to have the page actually called "Bow" instead of "Bow (weapon)".Drour1234 (talk) 20:46, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Laegeldrim back to Laiquendi

Does "Laegeldrim" actually appear in any works that might not be considered pre-canon or pseudo-canon? It seems like this term was not known at all until well after The Silmarillion. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 9 Jan 2026 4:20 PM Pacific

Both the terms Laegeldrim and Laiquendi are from The War of the Jewels, which contains writings that Christopher Tolkien pulled from to compile The Silmarillion. In the text Essekenta Eldarinwa in The War of the Jewels, it is explained that Laegeldrim is a Sindarin name and Laiquendi is a Quenya name. While they are both valid names, most page names on the wiki are Sindarin rather than Quenya. In addition, it is stated that in Essekenta Eldarinwa that while the Ñoldor translated Laegeldrim into Quenya as Laiquendi, the latter term "was not much used".Drour1234 (talk) 19:03, 10 January 2026 (UTC)

While something in the later legendarium suggests Laiquendi "was not much used", Google Books tells us that scholars and authors writing about Tolkien used Laiquendi far more frequently: Laegeldrim search returns a single result: J. R. R. Tolkien's obscure languages dictionary: Glossary of ... - Page 17 while Laiquendi search returns almost two pages of results. So, the mindshare of Laiquendi is far more significant. I'd never heard of Laegeldrim until the recent edit and page name change. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 10 Jan 2026 3:07 PM Pacific

Primary sources are preferred over secondary sources.Drour1234 (talk) 23:33, 10 January 2026 (UTC)

Settled proposals

Maegond Spur to eastern hills

I believe that the page on Maegond Spur should be moved to eastern hills since Tolkien never used the name Maegond Spur, but did use the term eastern hills.Drour1234 (talk) 22:46, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

The page should be moved to eastern hills instead of Eastern Hills.Drour1234 (talk) 10:37, 17 December 2025 (UTC)

King's Tower to King's house or King's palace

I believe that the page on the King's Tower should be moved to King's house or King's palace because J.R.R. Tolkien never used the term "King's Tower" to refer to the King's palace, which consisted of the tower and citadel that was built by Elros. The term "King's Tower" is only found within The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power.Drour1234 (talk) 19:18, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit (1966 film) to J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit (1967 film)

I believe that the page on J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit (1966 film) should be moved to J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit because the parentheses are unnecessary since there are no other pages entitled J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit. In addition, the film came out in 1967, not 1966.Drour1234 (talk) 04:57, 31 October 2025 (UTC)

The parenthetical will stay, for disambiguation, since The Hobbit is familiarly the book, and because Tolkien did not make the film. It assists one who's looking through link-targets. HiddenVale - TalkPage 17:21, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

In that case, then it should be moved to J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit (1967 film).Drour1234 (talk) 21:24, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

Laiquendi to Laegeldrim

I believe that the page on the Laiquendi should be moved to Laegeldrim. Not only is the Sindarin name more consistent with the other pages in Elvish languages, but J.R.R. Tolkien specifically wrote in Essekenta Eldarinwa that Laegeldrim was translated by the Ñoldor "into Quenya Laiquendi; but it was not much used" (pg. 385 of The War of the Jewels).Drour1234 (talk) 20:57, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

stone-gangs to Mólanoldorin

I believe that the page should be Mólanoldorin since Mólanoldorin is the proper name for Morgoth's Elvish thralls and their sub-dialect.Drour1234 (talk) 05:15, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

Bats of Dol Guldur to Qildare (Quenya) or bats

I drastically expanded the page to be about more than just the bats of Dol Guldur because it is more convenient to have all bat pages on a single page.Drour1234 (talk) 00:37, 9 October 2025 (UTC)

Flies of Mordor to Buðu (Sindarin) or flies

I would like to expand the page more to be about more than the nameless flies of Mordor. There are also gnats that are mentioned as well as midges. Both of which are types of flies mentioned in the book.Drour1234 (talk) 23:31, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

Gifts from Galadriel to Galadriel's gifts

I believe that the page should be Galadriel's gifts. Not only is Galadriel's gifts shorter than the current name and actually used in dialogue spoken by Gandalf, but it is a more consistent name like Galadriel's Song, Galadriel's messages, Frodo's Song, Helm's daughter, Tom Bombadil's songs, etc.Drour1234 (talk) 19:59, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

Song of Frodo and Sam to Frodo's Song

I believe that the page should be Frodo's Song. Not only is Frodo's Song shorter than the current name, but it is a more consistent name like Galadriel's Song, Galadriel's messages, Helm's daughter, Tom Bombadil's songs, etc. In addition, Tolkien abandoned the name "Song of Frodo and Sam".Drour1234 (talk) 20:02, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

Bregalad's song to Quickbeam's song

I believe that the page on Bregalad's song should be moved to "Quickbeam's song" because Bregalad's song is not used anywhere by J.R.R. Tolkien while "Quickbeam's song" is written by Tolkien in the entry for Quickbeam in the "Nomenclature of The Lord of the Rings" that he wrote.Drour1234 (talk) 17:23, 25 September 2025 (UTC)

Hammer of Helm Hammerhand to Helm's hammer

Self-explanatory. Helm's hammer is a more consistent (and not repetitive) conjecture name like Helm's daughter, Galadriel's messages, Tom Bombadil's songs, etc.Drour1234 (talk) 06:34, 25 September 2025 (UTC)

black serpent to black serpent upon scarlet

I believe that the page on the "black serpent" heraldic device should be moved to "black serpent upon scarlet" because people often confuse the term as the name/title of the Haradrim chieftain who used it. "Black serpent upon scarlet" is also a phrase found in the book itself.Drour1234 (talk) 01:34, 24 September 2025 (UTC)

Leaves of Lórien to Elven-brooch

Unless the changed intro is wrong, the page name should be updated to match. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 22 Sep 2025 2:39 PM Pacific

I agree, but it should be Elven-brooch instead as that is how it is referred to in the text.Drour1234 (talk) 22:19, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

Elven gifts from Lothlórien to Galadriel's gifts

Unless the changed intro is wrong, the page name should be updated to match. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 22 Sep 2025 2:39 PM Pacific

I agree. Not only is Galadriel's gifts shorter than the current name, but the term is actually used in dialogue spoken by Gandalf.Drour1234 (talk) 22:19, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

Little Princess Mee to Princess Mee

I believe that the page on "Little Princess Mee" should be moved to Princess Mee because the name Princess Mee is the name of the poem in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil and Other Verses from the Red Book while "Little Princess Mee" is simply the first line.Drour1234 (talk) 04:15, 13 September 2025 (UTC)

The Road goes ever on and on, to Bilbo's Walking Song

I believe that the page on "The Road goes ever on and on," should be moved to Bilbo's Walking Song because the name Bilbo's Walking Song comes from Letter 183 in The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien. In addition, Bilbo's Walking Song recalls the name Bilbo's Last Song (at the Grey Havens) that Tolkien used for another poem.Drour1234 (talk) 04:30, 9 September 2025 (UTC)

Ungoliant's lair to Ruamōre

I believe that the page on Ungoliant's lair should be moved to Ruamōre because the only time that Tolkien ever used the terms "Ungoliante's lair", "Ungoliante's Lair", "Ungoliant's lair", and "lair of Ungoliant", was in relation to Shelob's Lair in drafts of The Lord of the Rings where Shelob was originally supposed to be Ungoliant and Shelob's Lair was supposed to be Ungoliant's lair. The name "Ruamōre" is thus the only proper name that Tolkien ever gave to Ungoliant's lair and ravine in Avathar.Drour1234 (talk) 04:30, 9 September 2025 (UTC)

Song of the Ent and Entwife to The Song of the Ent and the Entwife

I believe that the song of the Ent and Entwife page should be moved to The Song of the Ent and the Entwife because the term "song of the Ent and Entwife" comes from a note by Humphrey Carpenter in The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien while the term The Song of the Ent and the Entwife comes from a manuscript page by J.R.R. Tolkien published in The Treason of Isengard by Christopher Tolkien.Drour1234 (talk) 17:34, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

Laprawns to Leprawns

I believe that the laprawns page should be moved to leprawns because Tolkien never used the term "laprawns", but did use the term "leprawns" in "The Coming of the Valar and the Building of Valinor" narrative in The Book of Lost Tales Part One and in a revision to the first version of the poem Tinfang Warble. If I had to guess, I would say that the laprawns page was created with a spelling error.Drour1234 (talk) 16:22, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

Morgul Orcs to "Morgul-rats"

I believe that the Morgul Orcs page should be moved to "Morgul-rats" because Tolkien never used the term "Morgul Orcs", but did use the term "Morgul-rats" in dialogue spoken by an Orc addressed as Snaga to Shagrat in "The Tower of Cirith Ungol" chapter of Book VI in The Return of the King. This is the only capitalized term used to refer to Gorbag's Orcs in Tolkien's works as I have already scoured The History of The Lord of the Rings for any better term. The group does have an intriguing development though, which I am keen to add to the page after it is moved.Drour1234 (talk) 07:02, 19 August 2025 (UTC)

"Morgul-rats" is an insult in the book. An insult. An off-the-cuff label made by a character who dislikes them, just like saying, "Morgul scum" or "Morgul vermin". Tolkien wrote the line, of course, but that doesn't mean the pejorative was their official group-name. Since we do see "Morgul" used as an adjective for Minas Morgul-affiliation, the current title is sufficient, unambiguous, and (unlike a pejorative) impartial, even though not literally used in the text. HiddenVale - TalkPage 16:37, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

The same could technically be said of Snaga. Also, not all page-names need to be viable in-universe or even what the character or group in question calls themselves. But perhaps as a compromise, the page-name could be Orcs from Minas Morgul? This would make it clear that the name is conjectural. “Morgul Orcs” could be confused as a name used by Tolkien.Drour1234 (talk) 22:32, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

Ah you're right about Snaga. Didn't consider that. I've renamed it "Orcs of Minas Morgul". Gorbag's crew wasn't more associated with Minas Morgul anymore than other Morgul Orcs who weren't at Cirith Ungol, whom Snaga wasn't acquainted with. (Sauron's army at the Pelennor would have logically consisted of plenty of them, similarly bearing the symbol of the moon, if it was the lord of Morgul leading the assault.) HiddenVale - TalkPage 23:20, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

Many many poorly named images at Category:Cleanup

We should not let the perfect be the enemy of the good and prevent renaming until a naming convention is approved. Most of the names in the category are wholly unidentifiable, so "perfect" renaming should not delay initial renames. I'd do many if I was allowed. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 14 Aug 2025 11:44 AM Pacific

See above. HiddenVale - TalkPage 19:06, 14 August 2025 (UTC)

I don't understand the reply above or how it resolves this issue... -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 16 Aug 2025 11:38 AM Pacific

The resolution to the issue is that on my own time I will assume the whole task of turning unidentifiable image-names into identifiable ones, executing the "cleanup" implied in the name of the category. HiddenVale - TalkPage 19:58, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

Category:Kinds of Orcs to Category:Orc-kind

I believe that the Category:Kinds of Orcs page should be moved to Category:Orc-kind because Tolkien never used the term "kinds of Orcs", but did use the term "Orc-kind" in the Trolls subsection in the "Of Other Races" section of Appendix F ("The Languages and Peoples of the Third Age") within The Lord of the Rings. Tolkien also used the term in dialogue spoken by Aragorn II in "The Riders of Rohan" chapter of The Two Towers. Tolkien also used the term "Orc-kindred" in line 742 of II. Beleg in The Lay of the Children of Húrin within The Lays of Beleriand.Drour1234 (talk) 20:25, 15 August 2025 (UTC)

Good justification. HiddenVale - TalkPage 23:57, 15 August 2025 (UTC)

You seem to have accidentally moved it to "Orc-kinds" instead of "Orc-kind". Tolkien uses "Orc-kind" as a plural term. "Orc-kinds" is never used. Category:Kinds of Orcs can be moved to Category:Orc-kind because Orc-kind is the term Tolkien used and moving the page would preserve edit history. The terms "Orc-kind" and "Elven-kind" (both of which are used by Tolkien in The Lord of the Rings) sound similar to the collective term "Man-kind" (which is used by Tolkien in The Lord of the Rings).Drour1234 (talk) 06:29, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

Orc hunters to Orc-hunters

I believe that the Orc hunters page should be moved to Orc-hunters because Tolkien only ever wrote that term with a hyphen in The Children of Húrin and The Chronology of The Lord of the Rings.Drour1234 (talk) 20:20, 15 August 2025 (UTC)

Good justification. HiddenVale - TalkPage 23:57, 15 August 2025 (UTC)

Gothmog (Lieutenant of Morgul) to Gothmog

I believe that the Gothmog disambig is page should be moved to Gothmog (disambiguation) and that the Gothmog (Lieutenant of Morgul) page should be moved to Gothmog because people would probably be more familiar with the lieutenant of Morgul since the lieutenant of Morgul is the only Gothmog to appear in The Lord of the Rings itself while the Lord of Balrogs only appears in posthumously published writings.Drour1234 (talk) 23:42, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

I disagree with this. When I think of "Gothmog", I think of Gothmog (Balrog). Prioritizing fans of the movies seems arbitrary. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 13 Aug 2025 8:16 AM Pacific

I did not mention TLOTR films even once in my proposal (I am not a fan of them). I was referring to how The Lord of the Rings is more recognizable than the posthumously published The Silmarillion. Gothmog (Balrog) is not mentioned even once in the writings published during Tolkien's lifetime. The majority of people who would search things from The Lord of the Rings because it is the more popular Tolkien book and most people read that book before The Silmarillion.Drour1234 (talk) 19:40, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

Zero reason to change anything. Both page titles are perfect: the name, followed by the clarifier. They are not an inconvenience for any fan who's more familiar with one than the other. Nor is the disambiguation page. Trying to calculate the ratios of who is familiar with what is unnecessary when neither character is vastly more important to the lore than the other. (Think about it: Gothmog the Orc has a single mention in LOTR, while the Balrog has much more activity in The Silm - counterweighed by the Orc's greater familiarity among readers than the Balrog's.) These differences cancel out in my mind, and are irrelevant. And thankfully, when just "Gothmog" is typed in our search bar, all options do appear in the dropdown. HiddenVale - TalkPage 19:06, 14 August 2025 (UTC)

^ Much better argument than mine and I agree. Should this be moved to "Settled proposals", but as move declined? -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 16 Aug 2025 9:53 AM Pacific

File:Great White Dragon Roverandom.jpeg to File:The White Dragon pursues Roverandom and the Moondog - J.R.R. Tolkien.jpeg or File:J.R.R. Tolkien - The White Dragon pursues Roverandom and the Moondog.jpeg

The page-name should match the name Tolkien gave the painting and and it should contain Tolkien's name in it.Drour1234 (talk) 17:41, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

If we're going to propose image renames, my proposal is look at this list first. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 13 Aug 2025 8:18 AM Pacific

Regarding that list, we need to find out the names of the painters behind each of the paintings on it. For instance, this painting was made by J.R.R. Tolkien. As such, the page-name should contain his name in it and the name he gave to it. Before I look at that list, I want to see which naming convention HiddenVale thinks is better, whether J.R.R. Tolkien should be put before or after the painting name. I think putting Tolkien after the painting name would look better on category pages, but either convention would work.Drour1234 (talk) 19:47, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

On my own time, I will go through and rename the images in the Cleanup category, from an illegible/non-verbal title to some relevant title. Don't worry about establishing an image-naming convention. Image-pages are nowhere as important in form, appearance, and consistency than articles. Remember, the chief way readers encounter images is through their appearance on articles, and the captions given beneath them, not through browsing image-pages directly and searching for them by file-name. So, the paradigm for article-appearance and consistency need not carry over to image-pages, until ~ten years from now when all other quality control at this Wiki has been finished. HiddenVale - TalkPage 19:06, 14 August 2025 (UTC)

Horn of Gondor to Great Horn

Tolkien never used the name Horn of Gondor. He used the name Great Horn.Drour1234 (talk) 09:08, 7 August 2025 (UTC)

From what I can tell it was called the "horn of Boromir" about as much and called "great horn", not Great Horn. However, I'm not opposed to this change. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 7 Aug 2025 8:32 AM Pacific

Could you give the reference to where Tolkien uses the proper term "Great Horn"? Didn't see one on the opening sentence of the page. HiddenVale - TalkPage 16:24, 7 August 2025 (UTC)

Tolkien uses the proper term Great Horn in some dialogue spoken by Faramir about Boromir in "The Window on the West" chapter:

"And very valiant indeed he was: no heir of Minas Tirith has for long years been so hardy in toil, so onward into battle, or blown a mightier note on the Great Horn."

—The Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers, Book Four, Ch. V: "The Window on the West", pg. 287Drour1234 (talk) 19:12, 7 August 2025 (UTC)

Perfect, thank you. HiddenVale - TalkPage 19:14, 7 August 2025 (UTC)

Letters From Father Christmas to Letters from Father Christmas

This is how the book is usually referred to in other books and some websites such as the Tolkien Estate's official website.Drour1234 (talk) 16:57, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

Angle of Eriador to Angle

People are more likely to search only Angle than search for Angle of Eriador. Also, Tolkien used the term Angle, not Angle of EriadorDrour1234 (talk) 06:36, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

Hwaldar to evil lord of the Hill-men

I did not know about the existence of the page on the non-canonical Hwaldar when I created the canonical evil lord of the Hill-men page (with a section on The Lord of the Rings Online). The page on the non-canonical Hwaldar obviously has a longer edit history than the canonical evil lord of the Hill-men page and thus should be moved there when the canonical evil lord of the Hill-men page is deleted.Drour1234 (talk) 05:53, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

Dark sorcery to Morgul

While the page still needs a lot of work, I did improve it slightly by making it about the word that the Free Peoples actually used for dark sorcery. I think that the name of the page should be changed.Drour1234 (talk) 06:15, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

Unless there is a good reason for separate articles, this makes sense. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 24 Jul 2025 9:13 AM Pacific

I have the same rebuttal to this now as my edit summary from February. HiddenVale - TalkPage 01:04, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

And it really isn’t a good reason. Morgul magic is a better all encompassing term.Drour1234 (talk) 06:13, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

Demons to Úmaiar

This renaming has been proposed by another user. - Bitterhand (talk) 23:43, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

I think it should be moved because Tolkien does not capitalize the word “demon” in his Middle-earth writings and the only instance where it is used is as a translation of other words like Úmaiar.Drour1234 (talk) 23:48, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Update- What is the status of this proposal? I still believe that demons should move to Úmaiar for the above reasons.Drour1234 (talk) 04:34, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

Mablung the Ranger to Mablung (Ranger of Ithilien)

The current page name makes it seem like Tolkien literally called the character "Mablung the Ranger", but I cannot see that exact name anywhere in Tolkien's writings.Drour1234 (talk) 15:15, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

Harlond (Minas Tirith) to Harlond (Gondor)

The port was not in Minas Tirith itself, but just outside the Pelennor Fields.Drour1234 (talk) 17:06, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

Faërie (term) to Faërie

I don’t believe the parentheses are necessary since people would more likely search for the term without them than with them. In addition, there is no other page that has this name.Drour1234 (talk) 05:47, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

Agreed. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 24 Jul 2025 9:13 AM Pacific

The Bovadium Fragments: Together with 'The Origin of Bovadium' to The Bovadium Fragments: together with The Origin of Bovadium

The cover of the book has the name The Bovadium Fragments: together with The Origin of Bovadium rather than The Bovadium Fragments: Together with 'The Origin of Bovadium'.Drour1234 (talk) 02:54, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

Seems like a very low priority change, but makes sense. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 24 Jul 2025 9:13 AM Pacific

The Battle of Maldon: Together with The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth to The Battle of Maldon: together with The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth

The cover of the book has the name The Battle of Maldon: together with The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth rather than The Battle of Maldon: Together with The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth.Drour1234 (talk) 02:54, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

Seems like a very low priority change, but makes sense. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 24 Jul 2025 9:13 AM Pacific

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight: With Pearl and Sir Orfeo to Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Pearl, and Sir Orfeo

Six of the eight various covers of the translation, including the original 1975 hardcover, were called simply Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Pearl, and Sir Orfeo on the cover. The name Sir Gawain and the Green Knight: With Pearl and Sir Orfeo only appears on two covers. Drour1234 (talk) 02:54, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

Some links to said covers would be helpful. The only consistent part of the covers I saw (google image search of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight Tolkien") was "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight". I didn't see a comma or colon in any of them, so the rename doesn't seem to have much genuine justification. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 18 Jul 2025 8:13 AM Pacific

This page is specifically on the book of all three poems, not the poems themselves (each of which should have a page). Also, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Pearl, and Sir Orfeo isn’t the first translation Tolkien ever made of the poem. There is Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (edition), which was published on April 23 of 1925.Drour1234 (talk) 16:15, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

Without the page Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (edition), the point isn't very strong and also could easily be helped by a disambig line at the top of each article. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 24 Jul 2025 9:13 AM Pacific

Taruithorn to Mondósar

In the late 1960s, Tolkien updated his Elvish name for Oxford from the Gnomish name Taruithorn to the Quenya name Mondósar. I believe that the page-name should be based on a name Tolkien used in his later life rather than a name Tolkien made for the earliest version of the legendarium in The Book of Lost Tales.Drour1234 (talk) 08:06, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

The cold hard lands, to The cold hard lands

There is no comma in the first line of the poem that is in The Two Towers nor in it's predecessor found in The War of the Ring.Drour1234 (talk) 01:50, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

Done. - Bitterhand (talk) 14:02, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

Army of the West to Host of the West

The capitalized term “Army of the West” isn’t found in The Lord of the Rings or other writings while the capitalized term Host of the West is found in The Lord of the Rings and other writings. I believe that this page should be moved to the latter name because that is the name that appears in the narrative of The Lord of the Rings as well as other writings.Drour1234 (talk) 21:12, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

Agreed and moved- the latter is the primary term. - Bitterhand (talk) 03:37, 6 February 2025 (UTC)