All posts by Sauron, Lord of Mordor
@/Jordan isle I don't know if you missed it or not, since everything was deleted soon after, but that's a troll account that got blocked after causing trouble on a different post. That reply probably isn't serious; just ignore it.
Which books by Tolkien have they read?
Which one was their favorite?
Do they have a favorite character from the Silmarillion, if they've read it?
What do they think of book-exclusive characters like Glorfindel or Tom Bombadil? Should they have been included in the movies, in their opinion?
Personally, I prefer the one by Peter Jackson to the animated one: it leaves less plot holes and stays in a similar setting to the one in the books, which makes it more accurate to their general plot. After all, the only difference is the tone.
The animated film has much less going for it, in my opinion- if Sam was listening, who knows who else heard something? At least in the books and Jackson films, they made an effort to keep it secret.
That's a good sketch, nice job! I especially like the shading and linework.
@/HiddenVale Thank you!
@/PVTBINKS Glad you asked! I'll put this in numerical value, since you did for Mordor's host size- however, it is important to remember that a lot of this is speculation on my part, since Tolkien never gave any numerical value beyond that of Turgon's forces. That being said, since this is based only on a few quotes and my knowledge of the lore to relate them, any counterpoints would be interesting to see!
To start, I'll do a rough estimation of Fingon's forces, which would be 2/3 of the remaining Host of Fingolfin, the other 1/3 being under Turgon. Assuming that they both had the same amount of able-bodied soldiers per group, that's 20,000 from the Noldor under Fingon alone.
Now, we add the Men of Brethil, Dor-lomin, and Hithlum to that, as well as a small host from Nargothrond, and while we have no rough estimate, we can assume that the hosts of men at the very least are similar to the elven in numbers... which quickly becomes quite a lot. While we do admittedly have no clear numbers for this (or Mordor's host size, for that matter), 40,000 seems reasonable to assume if we go with numbers as you did, not counting Turgon's small army.
Now, as for Maedhros, he brought along the last remaining parts of the Host of Feanor, as well as a lot of dwarves and Easterlings. The Host of Feanor was smaller than Fingolfin's, but also suffered fewer casualties than that group up to the Nirnaeth, so we can assume another 10,000 roughly on the elven side, plus several dwarves and Easterlings.
The Easterlings were as numerous as the Men Fingon brought- so we can add another 10,000. As for the dwarves, much like the Men, we have no rough estimate for them- however, judging by the fact that it was only one dwarvish kingdom instead of several, unlike how several Easterling tribes, elven armies, and groups of men, I'd say ~2,000 might work? Of course, this one is the guess I find least reasonable.
Alone, the three hosts of the Nirnaeth Arnoediad would equal ~40,000 for Fingon, ~22,000 for Maedhros, and of course 10,000 for Turgon- ~72,000 in total- however, as I said earlier, this is mostly speculation.
Yavanna needed the Silmarils for it- they reflected the light of the Two Trees, and Feanor refused to give it to her- without it, as @/AmiAsadi said, she could only make the Sun and Moon. The Two Trees were weaker than the Lamps, and the Sun and Moon were weaker than them... I think it's safe to assume that if she could have remade them, she would have. It's kind of like restoring something, only for it to not come back whole, over and over again. The pipeline would be something like this: Lamps->Two Trees->Sun and Moon. It's comparable to the Marring of Arda, not in terms of space, but in terms of what happened. In both, the power of something tainted by Morgoth wanes over time. The Silmarils were her opportunity to remake them as they were originally, with a proper reference point of what they were before Morgoth's influence, and she couldn't get them. So, she was unfortunately only able to bring back the Sun and Moon, in terms of their light, that is- in terms of 'cool magical trees,' made in their image, but not entirely accurate, see:
@/PVTBINKS We know that it was larger than Mordor's, to be sure.
Earlier in your argument, you said that Angband's host was 'large in number, but Mordor's was better equipped,' which tends to imply that Mordor doesn't have as large of a host. Considering that the argument about equipment seems to have arisen as a counterpoint to Angband's size, sorry if this seems rude, but it seems like backpedaling to suddenly claim we don't know how large Angband's forces were.
Also, we can infer that Angband's host was actually quite large: it occupied most of Arda, while Sauron only held Mordor, parts of Rhûn, and at some point, parts of Rhovanion and Eriador. I'd say that alone is enough to make a point for their comparison- while we may not know exact numbers, estimations are always possible!
The only exact note of force we ever had was in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad: "For unsummoned and unlooked-for Turgon had opened the leaguer of Gondolin, and was come with an army, ten thousand strong, with bright mail and long swords and spears like a forest." Morgoth defeated that plus the hosts of Fingon and Maedhros, both of which were also reasonably large, with ease. At the very least, his forces must be pretty big, right?
To follow up with the last one, I can't find any passage where Sauron was said to have defeated a force of elves and men that was larger than those in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Furthermore, he loses to that of Elendil and Gil-galad's forces, which were considerably smaller and less powerful.
That ties into the Siege of Gondolin being larger because of the strength of the enemy alone, in my opinion, not even counting the elven forces.
Why? Wasn't the point of the Hobbits' existence that they were meant to reflect ordinary people being thrust into an extraordinary adventure?
As @/HiddenVale said, which I agree with, Sam never had the opportunity to learn to fight since he went off with Frodo when the Fellowship was broken, and neither of them had enough time to rest or practice. The quest to throw the Ring into Mount Doom took 11 months; between constant traveling and weariness, he would have no time to learn the craft.
In my opinion, though, he doesn't even need fighting skills to prove his strength of character; his loyalty and bravery already do that.
If Season 2 gets a similar reception to the first season, I doubt the show will continue.
Very impressive! I like the artist's coloring method- they each give the paintings a distinct atmosphere. Scrolling through the paintings on his website, I have to say 'Eowyn - Defender of Rohan' is probably my favorite, though!
In my opinion, neither should be a movie- there's not enough info on the Dagor Dagorath to make a full movie (plus, I feel as though it would be more of a cheap thriller film with more focus on action than a decent story if modern film executives were handling production, especially with the recent writers' strike). We barely have any information on it, and so even good directors would have to make things up- plus, I always thought the concept was cut content anyway- not the best to make a movie out of.
The Silmarillion, as an exact opposite, is too long and complex to adapt into a single movie- maybe small parts, such as Beren and Luthien, the War of Wrath, or the Ruin of Doriath would work as stand-alone films, but definitely not the whole book. Especially when considering that compared to the LotR films, which were over the span of months, the Silmarillion covers thousands of years- a movie of the whole book would have to be incredibly long if it wanted to hold up to the LotR standards of quality and keep everything important to the story.
@AdmiralZod1 What do you think? I'm curious to see why you think these in specific should be movies.
OP is definitely Feanor's lawyer-
Feanor was the main reason the first Kinslaying happened, and if not for his actions, the other two wouldn't have happened either. He abandoned his kin following Fingolfin by burning the ships, forcing them to go through the icy wastes of the Helcaraxe, which killed many. He refused to step aside when Mandos (who, might I remind you, is one of the Valar- not exactly a guy who you take warnings from lightly) came to warn him- because he couldn't get over his hubris and wrath. While Morgoth played a part in manipulating him, there was no mind control or insanity, only his lust for the Silmarils and pride preventing him from giving up that spurred him to lead the elves to their doom.
On the topic of the ending, I don't think most of us doom our kin to death and despair in a foreign land, swear an oath to murder all who stand between us and our morally reprehensible goals, and slaughter innocents when we're mad, unlike Feanor.
Nice essay, though, I like that it actually has some effort put into it!
My favorite villain is Sauron, though I guess that might be obvious by my username...
My favorite hero is Lúthien. If we're sticking to the main series only, though, I'd probably pick Éowyn.
I'd probably say the Silmarillion is my favorite, followed by Return of the King. I plan to read the Children of Hurin soon!
I'm not sure why you'd think that. Especially considering that there was an entire made-up plotline about Tauriel's romance with Kili in that trilogy, I can't see it being the case. I'm interested to hear where you're coming from with this, though!
I think there could have been an interesting story without Morgoth's villainy, and there could still be a decent story whether or not he causes trouble!
-Sooner or later, Ungoliant would show up, and she'd probably cause some chaos- it took her devouring herself to kill her. Also, considering that she became so powerful that, at one point, she even terrified Morgoth, I can see her and her spawn being a pain to deal with and potentially becoming a major villain in his place- I personally think that she would be an interesting foe to deal with, to say the least.
-Sauron, even before he allied with Morgoth, still had his own goals that didn't exactly align with Iluvatar's. Considering that the reason he turned evil wasn't because of Morgoth specifically, but rather because he thought he could get his goals done through him, I think he could easily be stir up trouble, even without Morgoth's influence. If he were to see a way to achieve his goals that happened to be less than morally correct, or just outright evil, he would likely become major villain number two, especially if he could persuade others to join his cause.
-Elves weren't perfect- even without Morgoth actively manipulating him, Feanor still made the Silmarils and grew somewhat obsessive over them; and an elf like him could still rise to prominence and start causing trouble, whether it's still Feanor or not- especially considering, to restate a previous point, that Sauron could still turn evil and manipulate the elf causing these problems. The same goes for humans, which Iluvatar explicitly foretold would be imperfect, straying often and not using their gifts in harmony. While one human alone probably couldn't do much to mess things up, a kingdom of them under a leader similar to Ar-Pharazon likely could. Something like that, in my opinion, could provide a narrative to go off of.
Would it be different? Almost certainly. Could there still be a villain to take his place and keep up a long-running story? In my opinion, there's definitely a chance!
@/Icecreamdif
If you mean when he tried to plead for mercy from Eonwe after the War of Wrath, he did that more out of fear than remorse, and when told that the Valar would judge his fate if he went to them for pardon, he refused, believing he would be humiliated. I don't think he ever really felt remorse for what he did, he just wanted to worm his way out of punishment.
He... raised dark armies, tortured people (Gorlim, Celebrimbor, etc), and killed thousands in his quest to conquer Middle-earth. I can't tell what part of that says anything other than "very evil villain."
In fact, here's a quote from Valaquenta, a chapter of the Silmarillion: "Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master (for the record, Morgoth) in that for long he served another and not himself."
With his numerous evil deeds, including but not limited to his interrogation and subsequent murder of Gorlim, his role in the downfall of Numenor, and everything he put in play with the creation of the rings, I'd say there's no way he's anything except a villain: definitely not an anti-villain, as that implies some form of heroism or noble goals, which Sauron really doesn't have. ("Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants," as said in a letter by Tolkien, for the record.)
@/Lanthanum12 All right- I didn't know about the rock opera bit, seems interesting! I know who Finrod is, haha, I was just confused as to why his name was on what was supposedly Sauron's image- thanks for the clarification!
@/Fandyllic Yeah, that's what tripped me up for a second-