All HiddenVale is trying to say is that a poll title that helps provoke discussion increases the likelihood of a good discussion. Of course you can have a good discussion and still have a boring title, but that's not the point. The point is that the guidelines are there to try and increase the likelihood of having as good of a discussion as possible. You may think it's silly, but the rules still remain.

@HiddenVale that’s kind of my point. You didn’t see the Song of Thorin post for four whole days until I said something about it and all you or any of the other admins had to do was just scroll down a little bit to see it. I didn’t care about any of the three or four posts you deleted, I just wanted to see that you’re easily goaded and you proved to be just so. The fact that you did delete them, which were up for no less than 17 hours only after I said something only proves that you nitpick and choose which posts to delete at whim which also means you don’t care about the guidelines at all. If I hadn’t mentioned them, they would still be up because you don’t do your job.

@WizardWarrior1 click on my name or profile, scroll down to my polls, click on them, and you’ll see that there’s discussions on all of them. That’s what I’ve been saying. It doesn’t necessarily matter what I put in the subject line. People will comment and comments breed discussions. My first vs. poll had a discussion and my second one which was my most recent would’ve had one too, but both of them were deleted. I don’t even have an issue with the guideline itself, my main issue is that my polls have discussions regardless of what’s in the subject line and three of them were still deleted.

@FH2104 ”endearing” myself to @HiddenVale isn’t what I’m trying to do. There was a post that’s been up for 4 days titled “Song of Thorin”. I mentioned the post to HiddenVale in one of my previous comments on this post telling him that the post had no discussion or comments and guess what? HiddenVale deleted it and I knew he would. He had no right to delete that post. It doesn’t say anywhere in the guidelines that all posts must have a discussion or comment (unless HiddenVale changes it) and he deleted it anyway. I bet he won’t be reprimanded. All he/she proved is that they’re easily goaded, they nitpick, they break the rules, and they decide when to actually do their job as an admin.

Yikes. Record steaminess in here. Anyone remember Skypyre, back in '22 ?

A good walk outside around the block might be advised.

@HiddenVale your argument about polls not being editable doesn't make sense, since posts and replies can be edited. You can't even edit the poll name and you don't get a warning, you get an error.

While editability of polls is not really on topic, it does exacerbate problems using polls.

What is on topic is that you really haven't given some good examples of acceptable poll topic names. That would go a long way to clarifying what still seems to be a pretty vague guideline.

@Atlas D. Aeradon while you may not value endearing yourself to admins, antagonizing them is a bad strategy and you won't be missed, if they ban you.

@Gandalfitur yes, I definitely remember Skypyre... and I hope I'm part of the reason we don't see them anymore (I reported many of their posts and replies). I also mention that drama when talking about TRoP casting.

That said, your comment doesn't do much to progress the topic.

@Fandyllic

That wasn't an argument; it's the Staff's explanation. Administrators don't decide what can be deleted.

By poll topic names, do you mean, poll captions? Here's a good one. Put your reading glasses on: "Who is your favorite, and why?" Simple! I sure hope that clue wasn't already given as early as the 2nd comment here. The reasoning can be found throughout this delicious thread.

@Atlas D. Aeradon

The Song of Thorin post had four days to gain discussion before deletion. That's why today, day four, is significant. Read the Guidelines again, with care, and you'll understand. The post itself was not outside our parameters, because it was a genuine artistic offering, related to Middle-earth, of a higher effort than a crayon drawing. Wherefore, it warranted no concern before today.

@Fandyllic if the admin is antagonized or offended by some comments that has no bad language in them from a stranger they’ll never meet, then that says something about him or her.

@HiddenVale did you just now add that rule in the guidelines? It wasn’t there when I read it an hour and thirty minutes ago. What a joke.

Lots to unpack here. Firstly, I was the one who originally wrote the Guidelines, so if one insists on throwing mud, do so at me.

Having said that, if the Guidelines had a version history, you would see that its first edition forbade "Who would win" and "Character A vs Character B" posts outright, because I witnessed Wookiepedia's forum go from a legitimately thoughtful place of discussion and long threads of fans engaging with the lore, to its current state of endless "who's the best????" polls largely because of those types of posts. I desired to avoid this here. Overly harsh on my part? Perhaps. Regardless, I was talked down from the edge by others, and we agreed to soften the language to its current form.

The unfortunate but inevitable consequence of this is that the Guidelines become subjective. What qualifies as substantive discussion? What qualifies as thought-provoking? Fair questions. It is difficult to quantify these things, yet we must try, for otherwise the forum becomes either whim-dictated totalitarian admin-rule, or Reddit free-for-all.

@Atlas D. Aeradon also has a fair point that administrators must dispense action impartially to all posts - yes! That is our duty here. But please don't forget that this isn't our primary profession - for instance I have a full-time real-world cyberspace career, that I just now got home from. If we miss things, please be assured that it is because we did not see them or are worn out from a long day - I've no interest in discriminating by user.

In sum, adherence to the Guidelines is non-negotiable, but the Guidelines should also be as objective as possible. I will confer with HiddenVale offline to see if there are ways we can improve upon it. And we welcome feedback! After all, this is a discussion forum, and diversity of thought is always a good thing. Anyone is always welcome to write me at my talk page (https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/User_talk:Bitterhand) or HiddenVale at his (https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/User_talk:HiddenVale).