I was reading Tom Bombadil’s page recently. I was wondering what anyone’s thoughts might be on his origin?
I was reading Tom Bombadil’s page recently. I was wondering what anyone’s thoughts might be on his origin?
Well, actually, @FH2104 , Tom Bombadil does have a purpose in the story. He was originally purposed to help the Hobbits get to Bree. The journey, which for that time revolved around the Hobbits completely, needed to involve conflict before Bree. It couldn't be the Black Riders, because they had ditched them after entering the Old Forest, so Tolkien came up with the idea for Old Man Willow (or rather reused it from the poem The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, first published in February 15, 1934). But the Hobbits did not have enough "experience" to get themselves out; so he took inspiration from his son Michael Tolkien's doll, named Tom Bombadil.
In conclusion, he needed to get the Hobbits to Bree, but they didn't have enough experience to get themselves out of trouble on their own, hence TB.
@StingString I mean, I guess all that is technically true, but why not just introduce Strider earlier? Or make the journey to Bree an easier one? There were plenty of things Tolkien could have done that didn't involve inventing a new character (or two in fact) IMO.
@FH2104 First, why would Strider be in the Old Forest? It has little to do, without really anything in there that Strider wants.
To make the journey to Bree easier would have been a great error (from a narrative standpoint); after being chased by the Black Riders (but not actually caught), Tolkien has been building the suspense and fear within the reader; to have Frodo and Company, and to have a (I dunno, probably three? Maybe two) day lull in the action would have dashed the suspense into pieces.
@StingString That's only true if you find the stuff in the Old Forest suspenseful. I find it enervating. That's even before you realise it has nothing to do with anything. The build-up is what's suspenseful, which is why the nonsense at Tom's house is so completely unnecessary.
What Strider would have been doing there is a moot point. The suspense is escaping the Riders between Bywater and Bree, and then the ambush on the Prancing Pony. I just don't share Tolkien's love for a random character—seen once, never to be seen again—and I believe a better editor would have cut that chunk out entirely, as Jackson did.
@FH2104 Ehhh, fine. I can think of a million counterpoints to what you're saying, but I can see you will never agree with me. We'll just have to politely disagree on this subject.
@StingString You say I'm not going to agree with you like agreeing is the only reason for having the discussion? It's not about convincing me you're right or vice versa: but I do think it's probably true that you won't convince me on Tom. I think that may be because you think everything Tolkien did was genius, whereas I think only most of it was. The book has quite a neat structure that is even circular in some respects, and yet if memory serves Tom only ever appears there and never again? It's just really weird. I'd be truly surprised if someone were to have asked Tolkien and he didn't say "yeah that bit was weird".
@FH2104 The presence of a complete enigma in Tolkien's work, especially with everything having a very concrete explanation found mostly within the Silmarillion, both intrigues the reader and give a more fantastical feeling to the overarching plotline. The little encounters like that, that don't even necessarily have a large bearing on the main story that make the fantasy really pop.
@StingString Whether you should have to read part of a different book just to fully understand the one you're reading is another question entirely lol. I won't bore you with my thoughts on that but you can probably guess...
There's maybe some truth to that. It's always fun to have something that neither writer nor reader fully understands, because it makes it feel lighter and less self-consciously epic. That isn't to say I think it needs any help being fantastical. His extraordinary attention to detail when it comes to languages and cultures are the best thing about that. Fantasy only really works if it is, at least in the context of the story itself, to some extent believable, and he achieved that in making Middle-Earth so richly detailed.
The origins of Tom Bombadil or what he is have been discussed at length on these boards before. When I get some time, I will try to dig up links to old threads so we don't have to rehash it all over again.
He’s the Chuck Norris of Tolkien’s universe.
Tom Bombadil doesn’t wear the Ring, the Ring wears Tom Bombadil.
Tom Bombadil sang Eru Ilúvatar into existence.
Morgoth hasn’t returned because he’s scared of Tom Bombadil
What do you think?